Xu Zhengyue 徐正月 – Small Parts in the Social Machine

Artist

Email interview with Deva Eveland translated by Jacques Qu

DV: 你能描述一下这件作品的创作过程吗？你是不是拍摄了你的朋友？是否在地铁里架设了摄像机？你是如何处理这些录像片段的？

徐正月: 我的创作时常关注人本身以及人与空间的关系。最初吸引我的是行走这个行为，我观察生活中人们行走的姿势、节奏都不一样，非常有趣，而且我感受到这个背后暗含着很多值得发掘的信息。后来我开始尝试带着摄影机在街道上拍摄人们行走的姿势。拍摄空间的选择很随机，比如有学校门口、商业区、地铁通道、居住社区、不同的城区等，我并不想制定一个规则，只能拍哪个地方的人或者只能拍什么样的人，应该是比较平等并且跟随自己的感觉的。拍摄对象也都是经过我的陌生人，其中有两个人是我的朋友，虽然我们面对面经过的时间很短，但我用镜头记录下他们，这也是件很浪漫的事。接下来的工作是，我把每个人行走的视频片段，分别用Photoshop软件制作成了二维动画，一帧一帧进行绘制，最后合成一个行走循环视频。这其实是把行走的动作符号化的过程。

DE: Can you describe your process in making the work? Did you film your friends? Set up a video camera in the subway? How did you manipulate the footage?

XZ: When I’m at work, I always pay attention to human itself and the relationship between human and space. First I was intrigued by the action of walking – I observed how the posture and tempo of people’s walking differ from one to another, which is very interesting, and I sensed in it rich information to be mined. Later I started to carry video-camera to tape people’s walking postures. The selection of location is random, for example, at school gate, in commercial areas, in the subway tunnel, in community, in various parts of the city, etc. I don’t want to set a rule - like you can only tape certain kind of people in certain locations; instead, I believe all subjects are equal and I go with the flow. All the subjects are the strangers who were walking past me; two of them happened to be my acquaintances, and although it was only a moment that we faced each other I taped them well, a quite romantic episode. What I did next was that I took out the video clips of each person’s walking and turned them into 2-D animation using Photoshop, drawing the picture frame by frame and eventually combining into a loop video of walking. This process is actually the symbolization of the action of walking.

DE: 你选择用来展示这件作品的边缘性空间位置让我很感兴趣。楼梯底下，承重的柱子，走廊墙壁的高处，通风口……在视觉上，它们都是博物馆内未加利用的空间。你能讲一下你是如何选择这些位置的吗？

徐正月: 我平时就对空间特别感兴趣，喜欢去感受不同的空间环境，但这次展览最初要求每个人只能使用3米×3米的方形空间，这让我觉得很限制。后来我开始尝试各种办法突破这种限制，我带着一台微型投影仪在美术馆的各种空间投射行人影像，比如像洗手间、楼梯间、水泥柱子上、很高的墙面上，垃圾箱等，当时我非常兴奋，而且我感受到这些地方都不是常规的展示空间，从来没有人在楼梯底下或者美术馆的通风口展示过作品，但又是我们生活空间的一部分，同时又能和行走这个概念很好的吻合，我决定要利用美术馆这些被忽略的建筑空间。我花很多时间待在美术馆里面，想用我的感官再次去感受这个空间，并且思考如何将我的影像作品和展示空间更好的结合。在这期间，我思考最多的就是影像作品和空间和观众（人）三者之间的关系，这也是我作品所要探讨的最核心的问题。最终呈现出来展示效果中，一条绵延的行人去适应和突破建筑空间各种结构，和周围的空间发生关系，现实中给人以一种的感觉投射，并对生活中人和空间关系产生隐喻。而且，这件作品具有非常强的可变性，不同的空间会产生不同的效果。

DE: I'm interested in the marginal spaces you chose to display this work. The underside of a staircase, a support column, high up on a corridor wall, vents...they're visually unused spaces of the museum. Can you talk about how you chose to locate your work there?

XZ: I always take a special interest in space; I am always pleased to sense difference space environments. However, this exhibit at first only gave each participant a 3m x 3m square space, which made me feel limited. Then I tried various ways to break such limitations. I brought in a portable projector to project images of pedestrians onto various spaces in the gallery, for example the restroom, staircase, cement pillars, walls high up, garbage cans, etc. I was very excited at that time, and I sensed that these places are not conventional spaces for exhibition and no one has displayed their work under the stairs or on a gallery’s vent, but they’re parts of our living space and a great match to the concept of walking. So I decided to utilize these ignored space in the building. I spent a lot of time in the gallery, hoping to feel this space using my own senses and to explore how to best combine my visual art with the space of exhibition. During this period, the topic I thought of most was the relationship between the visual art, space and visitor (people), which is the core topic I want to touch through my work. In the eventual visual display, an endless array of walkers try to adapt and to break through various structure of space and to establish a linkage to the surrounding space - in reality it projects your feeling on it and creates a metaphor for the relationship between people and space in daily life. Moreover, this work has very strong flexibility and would yield different effect in a different space. 

DE: 你有兴趣在博物馆或者画廊的户外展示自己的作品吗？如果是，你理想的场所是哪里？

徐正月: 我在今年7月份在在北京的朝阳大悦城展示过我的作品，这是一个大型商业空间，每天顾客川流不息，我的作品和公共空间配合进行展示。我有兴趣让我的作品进入到公共空间或人们的生活空间展示，但我也希望能尝试在一些静谧、神圣或者更慢节奏的空间展示，比如自然的空间或者教堂，我想会产生出一些新的感受。如果是博物馆或者画廊的户外展示，可能在太阳下山后才能实现。

DE: Would you be interested in displaying this work outside of a museum/gallery context? If so, what would be your ideal location?

XZ: I showed my work in Beijing Chaoyang Joy City in July this year. This is a large commercial space with huge traffic. My work is displayed with the public space. I’m interested to have my work enter the public space or people’s living space, but I also hope to try some more quiet, sacred, slow-tempo spaces, like spaces in nature or classrooms. I think that would generate some new feelings. If I want to display in the outdoor part of a museum or a gallery, I may have to wait till the sunset.

DE: 这件作品有些地方很值得玩味，尤其是人们从通风口消失的方式。就像在观察一队队蚂蚁。我注意到小孩子们（包括我的女儿）很喜欢和它互动。你预想到过会有这类的观者参与吗？

徐正月: 我在设计空间时，有思考观众观看作品的最佳位置，像是观众的行走路线是什么，或我的作品如何配合观众的观展路线，然后让我的影像配合美术馆的空间，如通风口或是楼梯底下，并产生新的意义和联想。但现场能有这么多的互动是我没想过的，也没想到会有很多小朋友来观看展览，我在现场看到好多观众都和影像进行互动，这让我很高兴。

DE: There's something very playful about the work, especially the way the people disappear in and out of vents. It's like watching columns of ants. I've noticed that small children (my daughter included) liked interacting with it. Did you expect this participatory aspect?

XZ: When I designed the space, I did think about the best observation spot for the visitors, and their walking route, or how my work should match visitor’s walking route. Then I let my visual images fit into the spaces in the gallery, like at the vent or under the stairs, so as to generate new meanings and imagination. But I wasn’t expecting that much interaction or that many kids at the exhibition. I witnessed many visitors interacting with the images, which made me happy.    

DE: 我也在想里面是否隐藏了一些更阴暗的东西。一排行进的人可能暗示着苦工。他们看上去像蚂蚁的一个原因是因为他们都缺乏个人特征。仿佛我们在看着物品通过X-射线安检，这让我联想到我们总是在监控之下，无论我们是否意识到这一点。你也会有这些想法吗？

徐正月: 这件作品的灵感和创作元素就是来自于我生活的这个社会环境，这里的生活节奏特别快，人们像是社会机器里的一个零件每天都在快速的运转，无限循环，似乎人本身的天性在逐渐丧失。我的影像作品也有循环的因素，每个人的行走都是循环的，我想用这种无限循环行走的动作隐喻当下生活的现状，一排行人钻进通风口，消失在一个未知的空间中，像是在修苦行。我并不认为这是一种悲观的看法，反而去正视现实，才能反观人自身最原始最本真的天性。

在绘制行人走路时，我都会尽可能的保留每个人特有的走路姿势、节奏、速度，保有动作的生动性，呈现出每个行者不同的身份和隐藏的故事，其实每个人的特征还是比较明显的，但通风口墙壁的光线比较亮，所以我必须把影像叠加3层，才能看清楚人像，也会出现剪影的效果。虽然每个人有各自的特征，但影像展示时，我选择用小比例的行人，制造出一条绵延的人流，把行走作为人的一种共性行为展现出来，而当你仔细观察时，会发现个体生命往往会在集体的共性行为中发出既生动又微弱的个性特征，这样的关系是最吸引我的地方。

DE: I also wonder if there's something darker? Rows of marching people might imply drudgery. Part of what makes them ant-like is that they're fairly featureless. It's like we're watching items pass through an x-ray machine, making me think about the way we're always under surveillance, whether or not we realize it. Were you thinking along these lines?

XZ: The inspiration and elements of this work came from the social environment that I live in. Here the rhythm of life is very fast, and people are like small parts in the social machine operating day after day in an endless loop, as if our human nature is getting lost. There is also the element of the loop in my work - every person walks in loops, and I want to use this walking in endless loops as a metaphor for the current status of life. An array of walking people enter the vent and disappear in the unknown space, as the practice of asceticism. I don’t think this is a pessimistic perspective, but rather an effort to face the truth, in order to see the most primitive and the truest nature of human.

When I drew pictures of people walking, I tried to capture the unique posture of each person, the rhythm, pace, to keep the vividness of their movement and to show their unique identity and the stories behind them. In fact, the traits of each person are pretty clear, but due to the strong lighting on the wall of the vent I must put 3 layers of images to make them sharp, creating a silhouette effect. Despite each person’s uniqueness, when the images were shown, I chose to make the walkers smaller to create an endless human line, showing the walk as the common action of people. But when you observe carefully, you would find that individual life would show a slight but vivid personality in the common group action. Such relationship is what attracts me most.

DE: 你在创作这件作品时头脑中想到了其他哪些艺术家？

徐正月: 是的，我有了解一些曾经运用行走概念创作的艺术家，比如以色列的艺术家Michal Rovner，所以我也有意的去挖掘自己要表达的想法和探索自己作品的艺术语言。

DE: What other artists did you have in the back of your head when you were making this work?

XZ: Yes, I know several artists who applied the concept of walking in their work, like Michal Rovner from Israel. Therefore I purposefully tried to find my own ideas and to explore my own art language.

DE: 你目前在进行任何新的创作吗？

徐正月: 我目前有两个正在进行的合作项目，一个是和一位德国艺术家创作的作品，我们分别利用自己作品中的元素创作，尝试将两者相融合，构成新的思考和意义。另一个是和一个互联网APP合作，这个APP是一个从公众搜集各种有趣的画作的平台，所以我用行走的概念和他们合作，当然这件作品中所有的行走角色都是公众创作的，我再进行视频制作和展示空间设计，我认为这是一种非常有趣的合作方式。

对于我的下一件作品，我目前也有一些构想，比如加入实时影像捕捉的技术，影像里的人正是在美术馆观看展览的观众，这样参与感会更强，但这需要很多次实验。

DE: Are you working on any new projects?

XZ: I’m currently working on two collaborative projects. One is with a German artist. We work with our own elements respectively and then try to merge them to reach new ideas and meanings. The other is a collaboration with an internet App. This App is a platform which collects from the public all sorts of interesting drawings, so I work with them on the concept of walking. Of course all the walking characters in this work are created by the public, and then I will make the video and design the space for display. This kind of collaboration is a lot of fun.

Beyond that, I have some rough ideas, like using the technology of real-time image capturing. Then the people in the images would be the very people who are viewing the exhibition in the gallery. That would bring more sense of participation, but would need a lot of experimentation first.

DE: 你是什么时候、因为什么原因想成为一个艺术家的？你对于艺术的认知经历了怎样的转变？

徐正月: 我从小开始学习画画，11岁时去了一间美术学校学习中国画、素描，直到报考大学都是在接受很传统的美术教育。大学期间我开始接触影像和动画，这让我的表达有了更多的选择，那时我会有意识的去了解当代艺术的作品。2013年我进入到中央美术学院学习，接触到更多的艺术表现手法，并且对艺术也有了更深的思考和理解。让我真正想成为一个艺术家，是当我创作时，我所感受到的快乐、美好和寻找自我的过程，当然也有痛苦的时候，但所有的这些感受是我非常愿意去享受的，这个时候我想，是的，我要成为一个艺术家。

其实，艺术最吸引我的地方就是她的无限可能性，她的新鲜感是随处存在的。从小时候的趣味到现在成为工作和生活，这么长的时间里，我对艺术的认知一定有很大的变化。我想让艺术融入到我的生活中，并从这里获取灵感去表达我的思考和想法，通过作品和人们、和我生活的当下社会建立一种联接，并且在这个过程中去寻找自己、感受自己。这就是我目前对艺术或者我做的事情的感受，在未来一定会有新的感受，这是非常有趣的事情，但不是件容易的事情。

DE: When and how did you decide to become an artist? Has your idea of art changed along the way?

XZ: I started to learn painting as a kid. When I was 11, I went to an art school to learn Chinese painting and drawing. I accepted very traditional art education all the way to college. In college I got in touch with images and animation, which gave me more options for expressing myself. At that time, I particular wanted to learn about modern art. In 2013 I was admitted into China Central Academy of Fine Arts and learned more artistic expression techniques, with a deepened understanding of art. What made me want to be an artist is the joy, happiness and the process of self-discovery when I am at work. There are also moments of pain, for sure, but I’m willing to experience all these feelings. At those moments, I thought, yes, I want to be an artist. 

In fact, the most attractive aspect of art is its infinite possibilities. The freshness is everywhere. From my early interest as a kid to my job and life now, over such a long period, my view of art has changed significantly. I want art to enter my life and to get inspiration to express my ideas and my thinking, to create a linkage between my work and people and the society I live in, and to discover myself and enjoy myself along the way. This is my feeling toward art or the things I do. I’m sure I’ll have new feelings in the future. This is a very interesting thing, but not an easy one.

DE: 你有什么想要补充的吗？

徐正月: 我非常喜欢这些问题，很感谢有这样的交流。

DE: Is there anything else you'd like to add?

XZ: I really like your questions. Thanks for having this discussion with me. 

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